A place for Liam to post essays, comments, diatribes and rants on life in general.

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Saturday, July 23, 2005

The Role of the Supreme Court

[This was written as a response to a comment on the “Interesting Argument” thread. However, both Janet and I feel it has enough of it's own content that it should be posted as a separate entry in its own right. It is in response to one participant's claim that only elected officials should determine laws, that the responsibility is not, and should not be, in the hands of unelected Supreme Court Justices. --Liam]

And see, my disagreement with that is that I think that's in part EXACTLY what the Supreme Court is about, to be a check and balance against the elected officials, who may do things contrary to the founding principles of this nation in support of their constituencies, since they face the prospect of losing a reelection bid.

The role of the Supreme Court is exactly in being one more check and balance in the system.

Here's how it all is supposed to play out.

Congress passes a law. Both houses have to pass a version of it, they then resolve a combined version and send it to the President. That's the first check/balance, a majority of two houses of Congress must agree.

Next, the President can either sign or veto the bill. That's the next check and balance, the executive branch must agree with the bill.

If he vetoes, then the Congress can override the veto with a two-thirds majority vote, a check on extreme power by (essentially) one man, but only if a significant majority agrees that the President is wrong. Third check/balance.

People who disagree with the bill, or who feel they are unfairly harmed or targeted by it file suit against it, ultimately (perhaps) making their way up to the Supreme Court, who is tasked with weighing every case brought before them primarily against the Constitution and their interpretation of the intent of the Founders in writing that document. The Justices, appointed and not subject to reelection concerns, are free to rule in the way they believe the Constitution intends, without having to be concerned that the decision may be unpopular. They can do what they perceive as right under the Constitution, even if it would be an unpopular decision. Fourth check/balance.

Finally, if the Congress STILL feels that the law is correct, they can override even THAT, but only by Constitutional amendment, a process which requires a 2/3 majority of both houses of Congress *AND* ratification by 3/4s of the states, meaning that a simple majority in at least 75% of the legislatures of the states must agree that this is a valid and worth change to the Constitution. This is the final check/balance.

Each check and balance gets a little bit harder to accomplish, to avoid any one branch of government having too much power in the system, but all but the last can be overridden by somebody, with sufficient support. In the end, Constitutional Amendment is made so difficult to accomplish that the assumption is that it would not pass unless it truly was the overwhelming majority of opinion in the nation. Note, by the way, that the checks are almost all based on PREVENTING bad laws, not on giving second chances to good laws, and this also supports the contention that laws are enacted to restrict rights which (enumerated or not) are guaranteed by the Constitution unless revoked by due process. The three primary checks (Congressional concurrence, Presidential veto and Supreme Court review) are in place to prevent unfair, unjust or unconstitutional laws from being passed. The other two are secondary checks aimed at placing a balance on the first three checks.

So, understood this way, there is nothing wrong with the courts (and the Supreme Court) passing judgment on laws and overturning them. Far from being "judicial activism", it is in fact their JOB. And if the vast majority of the nation disagrees with their estimation, that law can still be passed by Amending the Constitution.

I will say, however, that we should all be VERY careful before Amending any part of the Constitution in ways that fundamental change the balance of power in the government. Like it or not, these five increasingly difficult steps of checks and balances are fundamental to making sure that we don't end up with laws that are fundamentally anti-American. Certainly, in a fit of fear after the events of 9/11 or the recent attacks in London, it would be possible to frighten the populace into passing an Amendment reducing the courts' power in the process, but in fact that's a very bad choice, just like the "nuclear option" described by Bill Frist is a bad choice for America. It circumvents the right and proper series of steps designed to ensure that majority rules but with significant chances for the minority to dissent.

Yes, maybe it makes the job harder to accomplish, but that's the point. If the job they're trying to accomplish is that worthy, it's worth doing the hard way. If it can't be accomplished the hard way, then it is (in my opinion) wrong to diddle with the fundamental balance of powers in order to accomplish it. Again, all based on protection against unreasonable restriction on basic freedoms.

And that's also why the Congressional “advise and consent” role is so crucial. Because those Justices are free from having to do what is popular, it is important that they be honorable people who will do what is RIGHT, who will interpret the Constitution as it was intended, and preferably as the Founders would interpret it, if they were alive today. Traditionally, extremist judges were not even nominated to the post, because both parties of Congress took their “advise and consent” role seriously and would vote down extremists who would vote partisanship over correct interpretation. In recent years, this role has been replaced by a feeling of “Hey, the President is from our party, if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for us.”

The notion of a Supreme Court Justice who does not fundamentally support the freedoms guaranteed in our Constitution, or would read it in ways clearly not intended by the Founders (as expressed both in the Constitution and in the Federalist papers) should be frightening to anyone. We're a free nation. Does that not count for anything any more? Are people really so partisan that they'd give up the core greatness of our nation in favor of Justices who would flout the very core of the Constitution for partisan ends?

And if so, is this REALLY a country I want to continue living in?

Copyright © July 22, 2005 by Liam Johnson. http://www.liamjohnson.net

7 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

That explains how the Supreme Court passes judgement on passed laws, but how about their recent decision to outlaw the showing of the 10 commandments in the courtroom, disallowing prayers by public officials, disallowing prayers by public schools at sporting events,banishing christian decorations on public property,etc. What law did they judge to be wrong and thus overule the Congress and the President?
It is these activities by the Supreme Court that is activism. If someone wants to change a country wide habit they should go to the legislature, have a law made and voted on by both houses and signed into law by the President. Then the rest of your senario could work itself out. It is the "by passing" of this process and going directly to the Supreme Court and in fact haveing a law made that changes the face of the country's habits that is the activisim that the liberals do in this country and is the reason they are fighting so hard to keep a liberal slant to the court. It is their only chance to get their agenda done because they cannot get it done through the elected officials of this country.

By the way, ease off on yourself with this switching country thoughts. Even with ALL of our problems (we have a few, but in THIS country we can have a dialogue like this without fear)this is still the greatest place in the world to live.

Saturday, July 23, 2005 6:45:00 PM

 
Blogger Liam said...

There are a lot of countries in which I could have this dialog. This country is great (or once was, and certainly could be again), but the blind patriotic flag waving "Greatest country in the world" rhetoric is counter productive. If you're not willing to open your eyes to the things that need to be fixed in our country, painting over the rot with a new coat of patriotic paint, you're weakening the fabric of the country.

The court CORRECTLY (in my view) recognized that all of the things you list in your first paragraph violate church and state separations. Religious displays (clearly relating to one specific religion) have NO PART in government sponsored activities. We've had this discussion before. If you have a courthouse that has a display to the history of justice, with the ten commandments included as part of a larger display that includes perhaps the philosophers of ancient Greece and maybe similar religious laws from other religions, that's OK. The ten commandments by itself in a courthouse sends the direct message to anyone who walks through the doors "You'd better be Christian or at least understand Christianity, because we're going to judge you here on Christian principles, rather than on U.S. laws".

Really, Christians have got to get over this whole "attack on Christianity" thing. There should be no Christian decorations. There also shouldn't be Jewish decorations, Islamic decorations, Hindu decorations or decorations to the Monkey God Uahu. No one is saying the coach of a government organized and sponsored team can't close his eyes and pray. He simply has no business leading his team in a sponsored prayer, because his team is paid for by the entire public, is open to the entire public, and should not alienate anyone in the public.

I'll ask the same question I asked the last time this came up: How would you feel if your son or daughter was on a public sports team (supported by your tax dollars) and they came home and told you that before every game, they were asked to face mecca, put their foreheads on the ground and pray to Allah?

Keep in mind, the Supreme Court does not rule in a vacuum. You make it sound as if the 9 of them were sitting around one day saying "Hmmm. We're bored. I know, let's piss off the Christians." For each of the cases you list, someone somewhere found that their rights to a free and fair and religiously free government were infringed, and they brought suit. That suit was fought all the way up to the Supreme Court, who then listened to the arguments and agreed that yes, in fact the behaviors in question DID violate the Constitutional church/state separations on which this country is founded.

That is not an attack on Christianity. It's protecting the rights of non-Christians from having to be preached to and proselytized by government employees at open and public offices and functions. It is not activism. It is the Supreme Court hearing a complaint and recognizing that the complaint has merit.

If no one brought the complaint the Supreme Court would have no power to rule on the issue. If those who brought the complaint could not argue the merits of their complaint on Constitutional grounds, the Justices would throw it out or reject the action.

But note that the Supreme Court in the cases that you discuss still doesn't make laws. They don't have the power to make laws. They have the power to listen to arguments and determine on Constitutional grounds whether someone's rights have been violated. When they determine that rights have been violated by a law which has been passed, they have the right to strike down the law. When they determine that someone's rights have been violated in the absence of a law, they can not pass a law about it, they merely rule on the case and effectively say that the entrusted guardians of Constitutional interpretation find this behavior improper. Strictly speaking, they don't pass a law against the behavior. If someone wants to continue to behave in the ruled-against fashion, they can. They just understand that if they're sued for it, they will likely lose and be subject to damages.

Filing suit against a law or a behavior is not a shortcut, and it's extremely dangerous of you to say that it is. Filing suit against a behavior or the enforcement of a law one feels is illegal is exactly the POINT of the court (or one of them).

Their job, their whole reason for being, is to focus on Constitutionality. Congress and the President don't do this, it is not their primary focus. Their primary focus is on passing laws they feel are needed, or which they feel will gain them support in their next reelection campaign. Discussions of Constitutionality really don't come into play. It isn't their job. That's what the Court is there for, to make sure that someone IS focused on it.

There is not a liberal slant to the court. The argument that there is is the same argument that defines anything that disagrees with the current Administration as liberal. It is possible that your precious Republican party is wrong, occasionally. And just because something is a general habit across the country doesn't mean it's not in violation of the Constitution. Or are you advocating that the Constitution should only apply selectively? That seems to be the argument of the extreme right wingers and the candidates they most champion for seats on the high court. That is activism and it is dangerous.

Liam.

Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:12:00 PM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jefferson said it better than I ever could in warning about what is now happening. Jefferson, Thomas letter to Judge Spencer Roane
September 6, 1819
Topic: Judiciary

The Constitution...is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary which they may twist and shape into any form they please.

Jefferson, Thomas letter to Thomas Ritchie
December 25, 1820
Topic: Judiciary

The judiciary of the United States is the subtle corps of sappers and miners constantly working under ground to undermine the foundations of our confederated fabric. They are construing our constitution from a co-ordination of a general and special government to a general and supreme one alone.

Jefferson, Thomas letter to Charles Hammond
Aug 18, 1821
Topic: Judiciary

The germ of dissolution of our federal government is in the constituion of the federal judiciary; an irresponsible body, (for impeachment is scarcely a scare-crow) working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped from the States, and the government of all be consolidated into one.



Jefferson, Thomas letter to Charles Hammond
August 18, 1821
Topic: Judiciary

It has long, however, been my opinion, and I have never shrunk from its expression...that the germ of dissolution of our federal government is in the constitution of the federal Judiciary;...working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief, over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall be usurped.

Jefferson, Thomas letter to Monsieur A. Coray
Oct 31, 1823
Topic: Judiciary

At the establishment of our constitutions, the judiciary bodies were supposed to be the most helpless and harmless members of the government. Experience, however, soon showed in what way they were to become the most dangerous; that the insufficiency of the means provided for their removal gave them a freehold and irresponsibility in office; that their decisions, seeming to concern individual suitors only, pass silent and unheeded by the public at large; that these decisions, nevertheless, become law by precedent, sapping, by little and little, the foundations of the constitution, and working its change by construction, before any one has perceived that that invisible and helpless worm has been busily employed in consuming its substance. In truth, man is not made to be trusted for life, if secured against all liability to account.

If you re-read the comment I made just before your last one, you will see that I did not disagree with the outcome of the Judicial rulings nor agree with them. I only object to the method. It is dangerous to the life of the Republic to allow 9 unelected people to rule this country. That is what is occuring.

Monday, July 25, 2005 8:59:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Madison, James letter to John Brown
October, 1788
Topic: Judiciary

[R]efusing or not refusing to execute a law to stamp it with its final character...makes the Judiciary department paramount in fact to the Legislature, which was never intended and can never be proper.

Story, Joseph Commentaries on the Constitution
1833
Topic: Judiciary

The truth is, that, even with the most secure tenure of office, during good behavior, the danger is not, that the judges will be too firm in resisting public opinion, and in defence of private rights or public liberties; but, that they will be ready to yield themselves to the passions, and politics, and prejudices of the day.

Story, Joseph Commentaries on the Constitution
1833
Topic: Judiciary

Without justice being freely, fully, and impartially administered, neither our persons, nor our rights, nor our property, can be protected. And if these, or either of them, are regulated by no certain laws, and are subject to no certain principles, and are held by no certain tenure, and are redressed, when violated, by no certain remedies, society fails of all its value; and men may as well return to a state of savage and barbarous independence.

These are writings of lesser known signers of the constitution that, like Thomas, foretell what the Court has become today.

Monday, July 25, 2005 9:22:00 AM

 
Blogger Liam said...

OK, I will have to take some time to read and consider these carefully before I comment on them, and that's something I shouldn't do at work.

However, just a quick note that I disagree with your final line. I've done a quick scan through the comments you listed, and I understand the concerns.

I think we need to CAREFULLY consider whether things are so bad now that we'd be better off without any guardian of the Constitution.

The quotes you posted foretell a nightmare scenario, and in my impression, it is overly fear-mongering to state that it has come to pass. We may have headed slightly in that direction, as I said, I have to think about it some more before I comment fully.

But... I want a better solution before I agree that we should do away with the Court entirely.

To use an unrelated example:

I had a science teacher in High School who on one occasion accidentally forgot to wear his seatbelt. This was atypical for him, but on this particular trip, he was sideswiped on the road and his car rolled over several times. He was thrown to the floor of the car, which actually saved his life, because the roof of the car directly above the driver's seat was crushed.

Nevertheless, he still advocates using seat belts, because for every example you can find where a seatbelt may have been detrimental, there are hundreds where the use of a seatbelt was helpful.

I still think of the Court in this fashion. I'm not convinced that the situation is so bad that it's worth scrapping the one section of government whose job is to scrupulously weigh everything against the Constitution. I'm not convinced that they do this incorrectly often enough to justify significantly altering the balance of power.

This, actually, is why I am most concerned about the lack of advise and consent role in Congress. The dangers of which you (and Jefferson and the others) speak of are why it is most important to have political moderates sitting on the Court. The answer is not to stack the courts heavily with extreme right wing ideologues, they don't solve the problem, they merely shift it too far in another direction.

But that's all I've got time for right now, I'll think on this after work and write some more.

Liam.

Monday, July 25, 2005 9:47:00 AM

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's responsible that you take you duties so sincerely. I think, if you look a the way the pendulum swings, that this situation with the Court will take care of itself without our being overconcerned. When an administration becomes too far in one direction, the people speak up through their votes and change it. Even though it is not nearly fast enough for some of us. In the case of the Clintons I felt it as too slow as the voters allowed them a second term when I couldn't vote for them the first time. I don't know exactly how you felt about the Clintons, but your dislike of the present administration is well publicized and they too have a second term. That too will end and the voters will speak once again.

So it will be with the Court because the Constitution permits the elected President to choose the new Judges and the elected Representatives of the people to advise and consent. So the Court will change even if it is ever so slowly. It will change in the direction (conservative or liberal) of the President and the Representatives thus makeing Joseph Stories commentary true that they (Judges) will be subject to the passions and politics of the day.(not exact quote but close)

I disagree with you completely about the Court not havina a liberal slant, it does. But please quit calling the Republican Party precious and attributing ownership of it to me by refferring to "your precious Republican Party". I neither am a Republicn nor to I contribute to it, but the people whom I find agree with me are in that party. I do agree with the national views of the Republican Party, but it seems many of those elected under that banner do NOT practise what they preach.

Monday, July 25, 2005 10:14:00 AM

 
Blogger Liam said...

I still haven't managed to form a coherent response to your earlier posts. I am running a bit of a fever today and it's slowing my thought processes down.

However, I did want to apologize for the "your precious party" comment. In my defense (although it was still probably a bit more personal than I should have gone), there are at least 3 or 4 distinct "anonymous" posters on here (based on style) and sometimes it's difficult to separate you each out from one other. I know among the anonymous responses there have been the occasional knee-jerk defense-of-all-things-Republican responses, and as I said, it's hard to differentiate.

I really don't think there's a liberal slant to the Court. I think the nominees of recent Republican Presidents have been somewhat less concervative than their party's base would like. I think the same may be said for Clinton's appointees and the liberal party base. When both sides think the court is not far enough to their side, it leaves things kind of centrist. I think you have to look at the nominating President, and the majority of the court was nominated by Republican Presidents. Whether the result has been left or right of center doesn't change that fact, and kind of gives the complaining about a liberal court a little bit of a hollow ring to it. Democrats have had a smaller influence on the current make up of the Court, so it's kind of hard to claim that it's somehow the Republicans' turn.

I am, frankly, astounded that it was the more liberal members of the court who chose to side with the towns over the people in the eminent domain case a month or so back, inasmuch as it wasn't a government program per se, but really a give-away to corporate interests (in this case, high end land developers).

I also agree with you, though, that my objection to the Republican party at present is not with the party's ideals, but with the party's leadership. I think they (and the Democrats, by the way) have strayed far from their core ideals, so I suppose it shouldn't surprise me that the same leadership has chosen to stray away from the ideals of the country.

And there's another reason why I dislike the way things are sliding with regard to extremist right wing judges. It seems that in my lifetime, the majority of Supreme Court Justices have been relatively moderate. The problem with pushing so far to the right is that the rebound will be all that much greater. When the pendulum swings (and I agree with you that it will) I really don't want the Democrats to have leveling the playing field as an excuse to nominate their own extremist. Because that sort of extreme see-saw would likely be the undoing of the court, as in the quotes by Jefferson.

Liam.

Monday, July 25, 2005 7:45:00 PM

 

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